Flashback: Can This ADDer Be Saved? – Part 3


Keeping Track to Focus Energy

by Madelyn Griffith-Haynie, CTP, CMC, ACT, MCC, SCAC

Going for the Gold!

Part-3 of this story outlines the two very different manners in which two best friends with two very different kinds of ADD stepped through the process of working with the same ADD Coach.

They designed increasingly more effective lives that suited their two extremely different working styles and individual goals.

This part’s a bit longer, but it’s a real feel-good – especially for those of us who will never be as organized as Katy – and I think most of you will enjoy reading it to the end.

Throughout this story I will continue to use “ADD” instead of the DSM-5 “ADHD.”
Click HERE to find out why.

A few Coaching Results from Clients themselves found HERE

Onward and Upward!

As you learned in Part-2, after that fateful day when Katy Nolan finally “hit the wall,” she did something that is still rather unusual in the ADD universe: she began looking for an ADD Coach immediately. (Click HERE to read PART 1 of this story, where Katy “hits the wall”)

Pinterest – from a 1940s catalogue

Katy had already learned a lot about ADD from her next door neighbor and best friend Barb, listening to her process her pathway through diagnosis and treatment over endless cups of coffee.

She just never imagined that any of her own struggles might be ADD-related.

She and Barb were so different.

SHE had always been so in-control and competent – able to keep up and keep it together, even if it killed her.

Barb had always been the maverick — a free-wheeling spirit who never seemed to get it all together.  There were more than a few days when Barb didn’t even make it out of her pajamas, with many afternoons when Barb’s oldest kids came home from school suspecting that they’d have to start dinner because she’d lost track of the time.  Again.

Still, the more Barb talked, that fateful day in the kitchen, the more Katy could see how similar differences in the brain might possibly have very different presentations.

Besides, Katy was sick and tired of being sick and tired, and was desperate for explanations, even though she was more than half afraid she would discover there were no answers.

If it worked for Barb . . .

Katy could really see the difference in Barb since she started working with her ADD Coach.  Not only had Barb learned a great deal more about ADD, she was finally doing something other than merely dreaming about becoming a professional photographer – Barb’s dream since the two best-friends first met.

Donna helped Barb figure out what it would take for her to do it, and then coached her through each of the steps on her road.

Barb hadn’t found her dream job yet, and she certainly wasn’t pulling in a six-figure salary, but some of her photos were finally beginning to show up in print somewhere besides her basement studio.

The first time a small check for her work appeared in Barb’s mailbox, both women felt like she’d won the lottery.  Those checks are not only arriving more often, they are getting bigger, bit by bit.

Katy could barely articulate her own goals when she began calling in for coaching – other than waking up in any state besides total exhaustion and not letting anything major slide off her very busy plate.

Still, she appreciated having the kind of focused guidance Barb had received as she prioritized her own next steps, without fearing that she was about to turn everything else in her life upside down.

Tracking in her Coaching Notebook

Donna, Katy and Barb’s ADD Coach, requests that each of her clients immediately set up a coaching notebook: a three ringed binder with tabbed dividers, where they can securely “file” everything coaching-related in one easy-to-locate, easy-to-update, easy-to-grab location — pages secured, yet easy to rearrange at will.

Remember that you can always check out the sidebar
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HOVER before clicking – often a box will appear to tell you what to expect

Tracking Works!

Katy discovered that it really helped to have something to refer to during her Coaching sessions, and that taking notes helped her to focus and remember the details of each session — as well as her upcoming commitments before they turned into emergencies.

She also adapted her Notebook as her coaching progressed, finally understanding the reason for those extra dividers her coach “strongly suggested” she buy.

In addition to the start-up categories, Katy added several new on-the-fly sections:  “Barb,” “Easter Dinner,” “Kid’s Easter Baskets” “Guest Room Readiness,” and “Hotel Accommodations”

She added that last category because keeping up with the frequent changes from all of the relatives coming for the Easter reunion she was hosting was making her nice, orderly “Guest Room” section too messy to be inspiring.

She ultimately decided that the relatives who could afford to stay at a hotel would probably be happier having a place to escape the mayhem occasionally anyway (and it certainly made things A LOT less stressful for her!)

Taking advantage of Donna’s policy to discount workshop fees for full-fee clients, she and Barb enrolled in the recently begun Peer Coaching Workshop, adding a weekly peer coaching session to their professional Coaching.  More to track, of course, but also more help with staying on track to completion.

Katy wanted to keep everything together so she could find it — made easier because she took the coaching to buy a notebook “in a color she liked but that didn’t go with the decorating scheme of the house.”

That deep purple binder stood out no matter where she left it!

Besides, somebody had to have ready access to the info. Barb certainly wasn’t likely to find her tattered, once-white notebook on demand!

“That’s okay,” Katy told herself.

“Barb brings a lot of OTHER things to their peer coaching table,
so if the notebook system is a struggle for her — oh, well!”

Meds Management (or not!)

Once Barb talked her into at least trying medication, Katy wondered how she ever managed without it.  She could actually FOCUS without undue strain – for the first time in her life.  (Click HERE for Stimulant Basics: how and why Stimulants Work)

She added a “Titration” section and kept the day-to-day tracking of her medication dosage, timing and measures of overall daily functioning on a form that came with Donna’s Welcome materials.

She also took her notebook with her to appointments with her doctor. Only there did she remove the Self-Observation Log she kept while they were still “adjusting her meds” for Optimal Functioning – everyone’s birthright, according to Donna.

Barb marveled that Katy was moving through the process in much less time than it took her to find her own appropriate medication schedule, working without documentation.

But then, Katy is the one with hyper-organization proclivities. Barb had always been a “seat of the pants” gal.

“I might have lost the whole darned thing on the way to the appointment,” Barb chuckled, only half kidding.

“So if I’d had a notebook at the time and managed to keep a titration log, I SURE-as-shootin’ wouldn’t have trusted myself to take it on the road!

They reminded each other that it was silly to expect “time off from ADD” just because an activity was important!  In fact, they learned, the more important something was, the more likely they were to drop it out unless they had systems in place.  The ADD brain tends to boggle when the stakes are high.

Katy was a model client

She didn’t miss one of her regular, weekly coaching appointments.  She always used the 15 minutes before dialing to review her notebook and her agenda for the call (the Client Prep Form), which she had filled out and emailed to Donna the day before.

Even though she found that she was still at the level where she needed to do a more detailed list for herself before she could come up with the one-page format Donna required, she found that winnowing it down was really worth the extra time it took.

It forced her to focus on her own unrealistic expectations of what COULD be accomplished in any given time period, as well as keeping her eye on all the balls she needed to juggle.

She quickly incorporated the questions on that form into her day, as well as her report, essentially:

  • What I Have Accomplished since our last call
  • What I Meant To Accomplish But Didn’t
  • Opportunities Available This Week
  • The Week’s Challenges
  • What I Want to Focus on TODAY, and
  • What I Will Do By The Next Call
    (which they filled out together on the current call —
    anything undone moved to next weeks “meant to” – ongoing tracking!)

She was beginning to feel as though Donna was one of her oldest friends.  She shared items previously reserved for Barb and Paul alone, even though she’d never met Donna “in person.”

Oh, did I mention Katy’s promotion and raise?  When her former boss moved to another firm, Katy had been doing so well she was tapped as the successor.  Everyone in the office is accomplishing more under Katy’s supervision, without the chronic intrusions of the former supervisor’s attempts at micro-management.

And then there’s Barb!

Seriously, as little as you know about either of these two women, do you think for one nano-second that Barb ever learned to fill out her Client Prep form in advance?

Truth to tell, she hardly ever filled it out AT ALL. Barb needed Katy’s Peer Coaching to help her set up systems to dial in on time, most weeks.

BEING THERE is a struggle for Barb, simply because of her brand of ADD. She has NO internal sense of time, and tends to get stuck in hyperfocus: hours flying by like seconds whenever she is working on anything that interests her.

So almost every week both Donna and Katy make Barb repeat aloud,
“Different strokes for different folks!”  

That first time she DID manage to get her Client Prep form filled out and sent in on time didn’t receive the expected response either.

  • “GREAT!” applauded Donna, as expected. What was different about THIS week that allowed you to handle this little piece of administrivia? was the surprise.
  • Remember, coaching homework is a Sherlocking tool, not a should.  We don’t have as much to Sherlock if you don’t do it, but WHY you didn’t do it – the functional stoppers – are much more important than THAT you didn’t do it.
  • AND . . . even when we figure out how to make it POSSIBLE for you to fill it out every week, it doesn’t change the fact that it’s your life and your choice about whether it’s worth your time and attention to do it.

Tears ran down Barb’s cheeks the first time she heard that point of view from Donna. Even once she got to the point where she knew exactly what Donna was likely to say, she still appreciated those reminders to STOP BEATING YOURSELF UP for being YOU!

Enabling?

Not on your life. That is, unless you mean that Donna’s approach with Barb “enabled” her to soar. You wouldn’t BELIEVE what that woman can accomplish when you don’t hold her feet to the fire.

Barb had to learn to stop shutting herself down with her challenges
and start applauding herself for her strengths –
and internalize that idea into a HABIT.

[BACK UP, JACK – read the last two paragraphs again. It’s a really important concept]

Oh yeah, the house is still a mess and the kids had to learn to cook in self defense, but Barb is currently WAY too busy to focus on those particular details: she is mounting her first one-woman show at a pretty impressive gallery.

No, she didn’t get THAT in the “usual” linear manner either.

She forgot to buy a birthday present for her youngest son Charlie to take to the guest of honor. She sent along a last-second replacement, hurriedly wrapped in acid-free tissue paper, spray-painted dog bones standing in for bows, dusted with glitter when the hair-dryer approach wasn’t working quickly enough.

What was it?  Ahem!

She grabbed and signed a print from her Nature Cries series submitted and placing in last month’s Sunday Magazine section’s photo contest — returned photos still not filed away, of course.

She hastily evicted a photo of her grandfather
to appropriate the frame.

It was a stunning black and white photo she happened to have taken of the birthday boy’s dogs overlooking the local dump.

Guess whose uncle owns the gallery?

Everybody’s winning

JUST IN CASE you’re worried about Barb’s family, the oldest daughter is now taking cooking classes in preparation for her summer enrollment at a “real” chef school. SHE is in charge of the food for her Mom’s show “to build her resume” – her own idea, which is key.

Her oldest son is keeping his Mom tracked on preparations for the upcoming show and serving as sounding board, official taster and cheerleader for his sister. He organized a disabilities-focused peer-mentoring group at his school, and is thinking about training to become the field’s youngest professional ADD Coach.

Young Charlie has decided to take up photography and is happily “helping” Barb in the darkroom, learning to develop his own black and white photos of every dog in the neighborhood.  (He plans to sell them “to make some money – maybe in an actual book.”)

Husband Larry swings with whatever, as long as everybody’s happy. And they are. GLORIOUSLY happy, even though Barb has been a miserable failure losing that baby-weight.

She actually GAINED ten pounds during her daughter’s
foray into French cuisine. (Blaming the butter!)

Plans are in the works – after the opening – to change the family fare in the other direction: her daughter wants to work her way through Oprah’s chef’s cookbook.

WHAT ABOUT YOU?

Would your progress be similar to Katy’s?

Probably NOT.  Barb’s wasn’t.  Even though they are best friends with a lot in common besides ADD, their coaching was designed for each of them individually, also taking their Coach’s strengths and experience into account.

Also remember to factor in the additional activities that Katy needed to accommodate to keep the Easter family reunion on track, symptoms of her hyper-organized whirling-dervish nature, and about as different as you can get from Barb’s Holly Golightly approach to just about everything.

Just as no two therapists work exactly the same way, another ADD Coach may have used different procedures, had different policies, sent different forms or none at all, and guided each of these woman to approach their tasks in a slightly different order of priority.

As long as the client is coachable (ready, willing and able to take the actions to move from where there are now to where they want to be), he or she will find that the services of a comprehensively-trained brain-based ADD Coach can provide a significant shortcut to accomplishment.

I have always insisted that there is no “right” way to Coach — ADD or anything else — as long as your coach really knows brain-based principles and does NOT try to coach you with some pre-packaged strategy. That’s doubly true with coaching so-called “neurotypicals,” by the way.

There is no “right” way to be a human being.
We ALL need to learn to drive the very brains in our very own heads!

And while neither Barb nor Donna were able to explain exactly how to recognize good Executive Functioning Coaching, Katy came up with ten items that were important for her that she is willing to share with you.

She suggests you keep interviewing until you can answer yes to each of the ten points in the following post. (Barb says, “Interview, schminterview, go with your gut!”)

Still ONE more post to come in Katy and Barb’s story, so stay tuned! 

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Check bottom of Home/New to find out the “sharing rules”
(reblogs always okay, and much appreciated)

Can this ADDer be Saved?
(The entire coaching story, illustrating how coaching works in narrative format)

Shared on the Senior Salon


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Assorted articles about ADD and ADDCoach Concepts:

A few Articles in the Attention series:

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About Madelyn Griffith-Haynie, MCC, SCAC
Award-winning ADD Coach Training Field founder; ADD Coaching field co-founder; [life] Coaching pioneer -- Neurodiversity Advocate, Coach, Mentor & Poster Girl -- Multi-Certified -- 25 years working with EFD [Executive Functioning disorders] and struggles in hundreds of people from all walks of life. I developed and delivered the world's first ADD-specific coach training curriculum: multi-year, brain-based, and ICF Certification tracked. In addition to my expertise in ADD/EF Systems Development Coaching, I am known for training and mentoring globally well-informed ADD Coach LEADERS with the vision to innovate, many of the most visible, knowledgeable and successful ADD Coaches in the field today (several of whom now deliver highly visible ADD coach trainings themselves). For almost a decade, I personally sponsored and facilitated seven monthly, virtual and global, no-charge support and information groups The ADD Hours™ - including The ADD Expert Speakers Series, hosting well-known ADD Professionals who were generous with their information and expertise, joining me in my belief that "It takes a village to educate a world." I am committed to being a thorn in the side of ADD-ignorance in service of changing the way neurodiversity is thought about and treated - seeing "a world that works for everyone" in my lifetime. Get in touch when you're ready to have a life that works BECAUSE of who you are, building on strengths to step off that frustrating treadmill "when 'wanting to' just doesn't get it DONE!"

75 Responses to Flashback: Can This ADDer Be Saved? – Part 3

  1. Christy B says:

    Your use of Katy and Barb as examples really is a great way to illustrate the points. No two paths are the same, right? I like the idea of tracking too that is suggested here (again, not a “should” as it won’t help everyone). Tracking can help to keep us on the course and to retain more of the points discussed in sessions too – double the benefits!

    Liked by 1 person

    • Thanks, Christy. I wish I could get everyone on board with tracking the minute I suggest it, actually – but nobody responds well to “shoulds.”

      Most people do discover the importance of writing things down “on their own” – eventually – but it can often take YEARS of struggle and resistance to the idea to drag them there.

      Like I told my coach training classes, repeatedly, “We ALL get it when we get it, and not one minute before!”
      xx,
      mgh

      Liked by 1 person

  2. Pingback: Flashback: Can This ADDer Be Saved? – Part 4 | ADD . . . and-so-much-more

  3. John Fioravanti says:

    Reblogged this on Words To Captivate ~ by John Fioravanti and commented:
    Madelyn Griffith-Haynie gifts us with Part 3 of her series about ADD coaching using real examples. Please, read on…

    Liked by 1 person

  4. dgkaye says:

    Great series here Me. I love how you use Katy and Barb to demonstrate the many versions that can take hold on our brain reactions.
    I hope you’re enjoying a most beautiful Turkey Day! Sorry I’m so late visiting. Life is testing! 🙂 ❤ xx

    Liked by 1 person

    • Thanks Deb – and sorry to read that life is a bit of a challenge right now. I hope things right themselves quickly.

      Turkey Day was SUPER GREAT, thank you very much – and I ate like a little piggie – even breaking a few of my own dietary rules for the first time in several years.

      TODAY . . . a little logy – lol – and back on the horse!
      xx,
      mgh

      Liked by 1 person

      • dgkaye says:

        First of all, my bad, lol, just noticed I called you ‘Me’ instead of M, LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL. And so glad you had a great day. And remember, we are only human. If we are conscious of our bodies most of the time, we are certainly allowed a few pleasureful indulgences at the holidays – Guilt-free! 🙂 ❤ xx

        Liked by 1 person

        • lol-no biggie! I thought it was a typo – my keyboard’s getting stickier, so I’m leaving them all over the web these day.

          TOTALLY agree with your thoughts about indulging ONCE in a while for those of us who eat for health.

          Celiacs, of course, cannot “cheat” – even a little – without seriously jeopardizing their health.

          Gotta’ underscore that for anybody else reading.

          I ALSO feel the need to say that a GF diet is not like others – in that you can’t “sort of” eat Gluten Free and get the health benefits.

          I have been *totally* GF for several years except for a couple of instances where I didn’t know there was gluten in something bizarre (like rice!) and 1/4 of a SMALL gingerbread man my first GF Christmas (before I had healed my gut, I suppose, because it did NOT go well – had to stay near a bathroom for several days following!)

          I keep thinking I need to do an article on how that works – but you know that time thing. 🙂
          xx,
          mgh

          Liked by 1 person

          • dgkaye says:

            Oh, I know that time thing. And maybe next year, you and I should collaborate on an article? (This year is already gone for me, lol). One hundred percent truth, there’s a difference from straying from a diet and straying from a health required diet. With my Crohn’s disease, my body will alert me if I strayed. Alerts aren’t welcomed so I never step out of the gluten-free box. But still, cheating on diet is still possible with gluten-free, while maintaining gluten-free. There are many delicious and high carb and calorie things to eat gluten-free too. And I consider them occasional treats and cheats. 🙂 Also, if I’m out somewhere and I don’t know what’s in the food, I don’t eat. Much easier to not eat than suffer later. For those reasons I always carry a power bar in my purse. 🙂 xx

            Like

  5. A fascinating read, Madelyn. So interesting to read about Katy, who would not fit my idea of someone with ADHD at all.

    Liked by 1 person

  6. paulandruss says:

    This worked out brilliantly for Katy and Barb, Madelyn.

    It is comforting to learn that there is no magic wand or quick fix. If you really want to make changes in your life and get past those things that have dogged you for you for years, then you are going to have to work at it.

    It is also nice to know from Katy and Barb’s stories that there is no one size fits all attitude and that your success is incremental. You do not have to achieve every single thing in one go to make life better, you can quite easily make parts of your life better one small step at a time.

    It is like the old Chairman Mao saying goes… the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. All too often people let themselves get overwhelmed by the ultimate goal and how far away it is. When all you have to do is stop thinking about where you need to be and keep putting one foot in front of the other. Then some point when you look back (rather than keep looking forward) you will see how far you have come. Px

    Liked by 1 person

    • Love this, Paul. Thank you. So many of the “grinder” gurus think that only that testosterone-fueled “go big or go home” way produces excellence.

      I scratch my head and wonder, then, if that way is so effective, how come so few make it to the top with that method? Overwhelm!

      How come so many who DO get “there” (whatever that means!) are not really happy once they do? Why so many second and third marriages, drug addicted rich kids, etc.??? Single-focus MEANS lack of balance.

      How sad to spend years of your life not knowing how to begin -or- hard-charging and realizing that you hate your life after wasting years of effort on it.

      You said it best in your comment:
      “It is also nice to know from Katy and Barb’s stories that there is no one size fits all attitude and that your success is incremental. You do not have to achieve every single thing in one go to make life better, you can quite easily make parts of your life better one small step at a time.” ::kisses for that::

      xx,
      mgh

      Liked by 1 person

  7. It was lovely to read about these two great ladies differing coaching journeys. I love a happy ending. 🌼

    Liked by 1 person

  8. Jennie says:

    This was a great read, Madelyn! I am mostly a Barb, although I do remember getting dinner and get out of my pajamas. 🙂 I love reading how each woman found a pathway. When I was a teenager I’d read my mother’s Good Housekeeping Magazine. They had a monthly article, “My Problem and How I Solved It.” That was the first thing I read- loved it. Well, these 3 stories remind me of that. Thank you!

    Liked by 1 person

  9. noelleg44 says:

    I’m beginning to think a lot of us have a little ADD in them! I wish I had met you when my son was little. We floundered in the dark for so long!

    Liked by 1 person

    • We all DO, Noelle – that’s why it’s so tough to get the world to understand that a formal ADD dx is a BRAIN thing — i.e., not volitional (amenable to will) — and that working with it is counterintuitive.

      Like depression, back in the day — most educated people today know that clinical depression is so-much-MORE than a down day or a month or two of grief.

      But MOST people still really don’t have a clue about ADD. Really!

      I’m not sure how old your son is, Noelle, but I probably WAS around when he was little – and I’m sure there is somebody floundering in the dark right now.

      I wish I had the marketing funds to take out ads in every format – or that somebody would pay all my bills so I could do it ALL for free. Meanwhile I do what I can with what have — and thanks so much for the acknowledgement.
      xx,
      mgh

      Like

  10. A friend of mine improved dramatically with medication, but as you say, we’re all different. What works for one might not work for somebody else.

    Liked by 1 person

  11. Adele Marie says:

    wow, Barb’s story hit a nerve with me. Especially about the time loss. xxx

    Liked by 1 person

  12. Feeling rather OCD right now as I moved house last week! Just attempting to stay in one room long enough to achieve something. And eat meals while they are still hot! And get to bed before 1am…….no biggy. Cheers,H

    Liked by 1 person

    • I can offer not one word of advice, Helen (and know that words of condolences don’t really help) – moving simply swallows me whole. Every. Single. Time.

      Sending good vibes your way — and hoping that you are so worn out when you DO get to bed you drift peacefully off and sleep like the dead.
      xx,
      mgh

      Like

  13. thanks for this post… it gives hope and courage to see that nearly everything is possible…

    Liked by 1 person

  14. Norah says:

    I’m really enjoying these posts, Madelyn, and learning a lot. Thank you for sharing these stories. It’s interesting to see the benefits of the coaching process.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Thanks, Norah. None of us need it, but most of us can benefit. It’s not unlike school *in this way* — accountability support!
      xx,
      mgh

      Liked by 1 person

      • Norah says:

        I’m enjoying thinking about that: not needing but benefiting. Interesting. Thanks. 🙂

        Liked by 1 person

        • Thanks, Norah, for underscoring how important it is to frame perspective in ways that inspire us – come-from is everything, right?
          xx,
          mgh

          Liked by 1 person

          • Norah says:

            We do need to be inspired. 🙂

            Liked by 1 person

            • Some of us need it — yet we can ALL use it. 🙂

              Have a wonderful Thursday, Norah. Tink and I are off to bed to get some sleep before the big feast later this evening (beating the sunrise by about an hour – LOL)
              xx,
              mgh

              Liked by 1 person

            • Norah says:

              And benefit from it, I dare say! LOL

              Oh dear, you are up late! Enjoy your feast! Have a wonderful celebration! xx

              Liked by 1 person

            • It was a WONDERFUL feast, Norah, thank you – and feast I DID! I still haven’t wanted a THING to eat today – and its after 3:30 PM – LOL
              xx,
              mgh

              Liked by 1 person

            • Norah says:

              Wow! That’s amazing. Sadly, I find little to spoil my appetite. Enjoy the weekend!

              Liked by 1 person

            • I’ve just never been particularly “food motivated” – but I make a HUGE exception for the holidays (and, of course, chocolate!) 🙂
              xx,
              mgh

              Liked by 1 person

            • Norah says:

              Yes, chocolate. Funny how there’s always room for chocolate! 🙂

              Liked by 1 person

            • Well YEAH – melts in your tummy – lol – not in your hand OR your mouth.
              xx,
              mgh

              Liked by 1 person

            • Norah says:

              Unless you hold onto it for too long! 🙂

              Liked by 1 person

            • Oh dear – I’m afraid that will be an experiment others will have to undertake. Hand to mouth chocolate is automatic in my life – LOL.
              xx,
              mgh

              Liked by 1 person

            • Norah says:

              I agree. I’m the same. But it reminds me of a poem I wrote about keeping a chocolate in a pocket for later. It melted of course. I wrote it for a science lesson about heating materials when I was writing science curriculum documents. Sadly my employer owns the copyright and I don’t even have access to a copy. Or do I? I might have to search my files. 🙂

              Liked by 1 person

            • Oh I hate that you don’t own the copyright to your own work, Norah! I think those laws need to be changed!

              Does that mean that if you DO find it, you can’t put it on your own blog without their written permission?
              xx,
              mgh

              Liked by 1 person

            • Norah says:

              Yep, that’s what it means. I did a search for it in my files but it’s nowhere to be found, which is a surprise because I recorded it as well. I did do it as part of my work, but I do hate it when I give stuff away I wish I could use. But that’s how it goes. It’s probably not really as good as I think it is. 🙂

              Liked by 1 person

            • I’m sure it’s wonderful! I wonder if there is a way to reserve rights to creative efforts personally while granting usage to the owner of the curricula in their materials. If there isn’t, there needs to be!
              xx,
              mgh

              Like

            • Norah says:

              It used to be for government employees, that anything done for the job, even not the requirement of the job e.g. lesson resources I made, were considered the department’s property. I had to ask the principal’s permission to publish some of what I’d written while teaching at government schools. Fortunately he agreed. The poem was written (mostly) in work time for the employer so that’s a different, and common situation, that gives the employer ownership of it. It works the same for me when I employ someone to create illustrations. I own the copyright. So I can’t really have it both ways. 🙂

              Liked by 1 person

            • Interesting point of view, Norah. I never thought about it that way. STILL, I would like to see the originator retain the rights to use his or her own artistic endeavors with notification and as long as they credited the “source” — i.e., © Published as an illustration for Norah Colvin’s (title of work, along with web source for purchase) — that seems like a win-win-win to me.
              xx,
              mgh

              Liked by 1 person

            • Norah says:

              I agree somewhat, Madelyn. It is a tricky one. I like the fact that I can have illustrations done for me that no one else can use, and that I can use in any way I like. Since I am not an artist, without that option, I’d wouldn’t be able to publish any of my writing for children, as it needs to be illustrated. It’s expensive enough as it is. I guess if you go into a contract knowing that you are giving away the rights, that’s one thing. If you went into it not knowing, or had someone “steal” your rights, that would be another. But it is good to discuss and consider the morality of these situations and I must admit I am a bit ambivalent about it. Thanks for raising the issue. And to think we got here from chocolate! 🙂

              Liked by 1 person

            • Ambivalent – yes, that describes my reaction as well. “Ownership” in the context of money (vs. creation) will always trouble me more than a little. I hate thinking that rights to creativity can be purchased by those who don’t “create” themselves – in *any* format – which is why I’m so big on attribution. “Rights to sell” makes sense to me, but not “ownership” to the extent that the actual creator disappears.

              Amazing what even thinking about chocolate can do – LOL.
              xx,
              mgh

              Liked by 1 person

            • Norah says:

              Those are very valid points, Madelyn. Copyright is a very complex issue. I agree that the creator should never become invisible, and that it is fair to attribute. I must admit that I am inconsistent in my attribution of images that are CC0 and require no attribution. The image creator is not always identified. But you’ve got me thinking about the issue, and thinking is always a good thing, especially if it leads to learning.

              Liked by 1 person

            • I try to include a link back to where I found the image – so I give a little link-love where it’s due. I am VERY sensitive to lack of attribution for the written word (including studies and concepts), since I have shed a great many tears seeing my own brain-children that have been plagiarized or outright stolen – often by students whose training I subsidized personally. Breaks my heart to see my generosity “repaid” by competition in that manner – and it has left me struggling to keep a roof over my head more than once.
              xx,
              mgh

              Liked by 1 person

            • Norah says:

              That’s admirable, Madelyn. I agree with you about the written word. It would be awful to see your work plagiarised, especially by students whom you have helped. Struggling to keep a roof over one’s head is never fun.
              Thanks for the conversation. Sharing of ideas is important for learning. xo

              Liked by 1 person

            • SO much needs to change here in the USA, Norah – education possibly heading the list. Back in my day they’d flunk you for plagiarism – or kick you out of school for cheating if it was flagrant, so we all learned it was a HUGE no-no. I’m not even sure if the teachers in our schools today have time to teach that fundamental with all the requirements to “teach to the test” anymore.

              It’s truly a miracle that anyone is willing to do that job. Thank God there are still quality teachers like YOU educating the next generation. Thank you.
              xx,
              mgh

              Liked by 1 person

            • Norah says:

              It is difficult for teachers to keep up with the constant changes and to fulfil the ever-increasing demands placed upon them. That anyone wants to do it is indeed a miracle. I am no longer in the classroom, but I’m hoping that my continuing work may support teachers in their role, and help to improve education for the children.
              Thank you for your support.

              Like

  15. Great story, Madelyn and you have explained each and every aspect so meticulously and it is so informative too. No two people can be same and all are different. You have written so well.

    Liked by 1 person

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